On Oct 25, 2005, at 1:46 PM, Mike Orr wrote:

> Also, I read an article recently (I think it's
> http://www.groovie.org/articles/2005/10/13/python-web-framework-niches
> but the site is down and neither the Google cache nor the Wayback
> machine have it) saying that we should stop working on frameworks and
> start working on libraries, so that applications can use than rather
> than being contained by them.  I'm not totally convinced of this, but
> Quixote does have several autonomous APIs (PTL, htmltext, form
> library, html functions, etc) that should be marketed on equal par
> with the publisher.

Article not available and not read, but I tend to agree with the
library approach rather than the framework approach, as by design it
leaves options open without ever needing to skimp on features. Plus, a
good aspect of a framework in an otherwise not remarkable framework
would have a better chance of surviving if implemented as a good
library, and best of breed libraries may be mixed and matched, but not
frameworks. However, it must be said that most people faced by a task,
and a deadline, appreciate that a framework actually takes away some of
their freedom from them, as they have to think less... until, well,
they hit an inconvenient framework choice.

I agree that the various autonomous API's should be marketed separately
and equally... (I argue that they should be at least "marketed"...
quixote and company give a feeling to something opposite to "empty
vessels make the most sound" ;-) To market these however, requires a
lot of work, in terms of maintaining documentation, managing community,
and so on, that seems to (understandably) not interest mems developers
enough. There is also the glitz effect, such as project own domain
name, and attractive web site, the blow-me-away 5 min tour, etc. From
the "popular" tools, this seems to be a common feature. Still, each
tool deserves to not be judged on these observations... just as
quixote, as an open framework, does not **have** to stay away from
using some of these same marketing techniques -- if it did use them,
would it make it less serious ?

mario